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God bless this. I usually stop reading a job posting when i come across the term “Rock-Star” or “Ninja”

This just seems like a red flag for a company that is behind the times, or is trying too hard to be cool. MySpace would look for a code “Ninja”, Facebook would probably be looking for a great coder.

Preach it! I just graduated and am now doing the job search song and dance. Within just a few days, I got so sick of these “Rock Star Web Developer” postings that I just started ignoring them entirely.

“Rock Star” seems to be code language for “insane job requirements, 60-hour weeks, laughable pay, and no benefits” anyways.

I’ve seen this term a lot on the 37signals job board

How about the world “ninja”?

I think it’s worse than that. Rock star implies a diva, fickle, short-term, outcast.

With Rock Star comes heroin addiction, no brown M&Ms, odd sleeping habits, and venereal disease

It could be worse. They might start looking for porn star coders.

Agreed! I noted this last summer when every other job listing was for gunslinging rockstar ninja and my little company was hiring a ‘Junior Web Designer’ or an ‘Entry-Level PHP Developer’

I tend to want my accountants cocaine-free. Just a personal preference.

Aaahhh how refreshing to see there are still people who can see right through this feeble attempt at seeming like a company run by cool but driven people. I adamantly agree to flee from any postings with the use of the words “rock star” and “ninja” as adjectives.

Nobody should be looking for a “rock star” accountant

Clearly, the writer is not familiar with Elliott Kerman.

Testify!

Amen.

These terms just express a simple and youthful excitement towards something.

Judge someone on their experience, portfolio, relationships, and character – not on their use of silly words in job listings.

They might just be trying to be casual. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I agree wholeheartedly. Terms like “rock star,” “ninja,” and even “Guru” really bother me. If you’re truly a guru (in the ‘recognized leader in your field’ sense), you’re probably not looking for work, work find you.

@chazbot,

Uh huh. Right.

I laughed out loud. It’s really funny. On the other hand, why be all “OMG what dumbass would apply for this when it says ‘rockstar’ or ‘ninja’?” Do we have no deeper analysis than that? Maybe it’s a great job, who knows, talk to them.

Its the consistency that’s the problem for me. You can’t ask someone to be a ‘rockstar’ and then ask them if they have the ability to:

“maintain a fair, consistent set of standards as they apply to the team, customers and peers”.

A statement which, of course, uses 16 words, but says absolutely nothing.

I don’t know: “Rock Star x” might be an apt description if, once they’re hired, you expect them to arrive late, behave like spoiled brats, and fuck everything that moves.

What about a Rockstar Ninja? http://imarockstarninja.com

Entirely separate from the actual silliness of the term in a job listing, I always see it used for some run-of-the-mill job—but a rock star is that one in a million success story. If you’re the biggest, coolest agency in the world and staffing up to support your biggest, trendiest client, then maybe you want and can afford to hire design “rock star”... but to use the term for some entry level job paying $40k? Come on!

Quite: What you want in an accounts receivable officer is a bona-fide gangsta rapper.

RIP Herb Dogg.

I guess the idea is autonomy and work that’s fun. There’s better ways to indicate that. I guess things like four-day work weeks, posh toys and the like indicate that much better.

Uggh, I can’t agree more. In addition to everything already said on this page, referring to oneself as a ‘rockstar’ seems pretentious… “I’m a rock star!” no you’re not, rock stars are rock stars . And ninja sounds like a high school kid. Neither is very mature.

I can’t imagine most hiring managers would relate to these terms.

Not as bad as the sheer discrimination and rejection you receive when you mention “Actually, I don’t use Twitter.”

Using “rock star” in a job description has totally jumped the shark…

As the poster of a job post currently on the 37s job board which uses that very phrase (http://jobs.37signals.com/internships/5208), I must say I’m a little surprised at the opinion here. I think the phrase sums up exactly what we’re looking for. Specifically, we want to hire people who:

- have fans that respect their work - will not accept bullshit - take charge - produce results day in and day out

That’s exactly what rock stars do and are. And yes, to test the extremes that have been pointed out in the comments above me, I would rather hire a drug addict that sleeps and works odd hours but produces excellent results than a “conventional” person who produces normal results.

But I concede that I will probably cease use of the term in the future to avoid putting people off unnecessarily.

I’ve got a hypothesis that the posters of such jobs want to appeal more to young people which might imply that they will be hardworking and cheap.

“A rock star is – have fans that respect their work – will not accept bullshit – take charge – produce results day in and day out”

Now to get a job I’m supposed to have fans? Not only do I have to know 10+ different languages and countless frameworks, but I’m also supposed to have time and drive to have personal projects that draw fans as well.

Ahhh, I loove being a developer!

Kevin: I realize and respect that you’re sticking your neck out here, but don’t you agree that there’s some conflict between wanting someone who “will not accept bullshit” and paying RoR coders (preferred) $10/hr in Manhattan?

EH: This is an internship posting. We pay our full-time employees way more than that.

Most Rockstars are A**holes. But they get the job done: They reliably rock the crowd. They finish the product on time, sometimes even on budget.

The problem w/ job descriptions asking for “Rockstars” is that most companies don’t have the corporate culture to accomodate a rock star and are not willing to pay the price.

“We want Metallica. We pay the standard musician pay and please no loud noises after 8pm.”

Yeah, dream on, enterpreneur-boy.

YOU NEED THE BEST You need a rock star I’M THAT GUY http://thinkcage.com/svn

http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/1748-forget-the-resume-kill-on-the-cover-letter

I disagree with the sentiment expressed here. I don’t see a problem with the phrase. I suppose if you live in a large city, you probably see the phrase a lot. However, living in a city of 250k people you rarely see the phrase. If you do, it might actually indicate that the position might not be for a typical cubical code monkey.

It would be nice if employers would post MEANINGFUL job postings with words that actually mean something.

Rock star could mean anything, I don’t know what the hell it means when applied to your company. How would I? Why not just have an honest job ad that avoids useless buzzwords and catch-phrases, and just states in plain English what you’re ACTUALLY looking for.

That would be too complicated though apparently, it’s much too fun to use ‘cool’ words and phrases.

Rock Star, Guru, Ninja…

all those make me ill, especially if somebody self-glosses themselves using one of them…

No one on the 37s job board will respond to me :(

There are a few misconceptions about real rockstars. The “prima donna” is in fact another personality all together.

I used to live with a real, honest-to-god Rockstar. He had not “made it” yet, but he had the persona down. He was so good at this that we even recruited a new roommate who wanted to learn how to be a Rockstar (the student learned well and has gone on to a professional career in music with five records, two on a major). What is the Rockstar persona? Professional. Perfectionist. Sexy.

My Rockstar was extremely professional and committed. He practiced guitar several hours a day. He wrote music constantly. He listened to music constantly. He didn’t believe in genre or niches. He loved all music – as long as it was good. I learned more about having an open mind and recognizing art from living with him than from any other experience.

He was a perfectionist in everything he did and forgiving of others. He taught guitar and was demanding of himself as a teacher. If a student was not progressing, it was his fault not the student’s and he would develop new techniques for teaching until he got it right. When it was his turn to clean the bathroom, it was spotless and gleaming.

He was sexy. Women just adored him. I sometimes had the chance to ask them what they loved. Confidence. He was an expert at guitar and at music and he knew it. No false modesty, but no raging ego either.

Yeah, he had access to drugs (damn, the parties we were invited to…). But he didn’t use them much or get too drunk because the recovery time cut into his music. People use the phrase “consequence-free” about rockstars, but losing a day of music – to anything – was a serious consequence to this guy.

I had the happy fortune of living with a great programmer at a slightly later point in my life. He was professional, a perfectionist, but not sexy. His ego was too big and his confidence was not solid and he did not forgive lesser minds easily. He changed though. He committed himself to being a true expert and teacher. Now he’s as sexy as they come – despite being close to 300 pounds. He’s a Rockstar.

Of course no entry level person is a Rockstar. No one who has not put in close to their 10,000 hours is a Rockstar. And no one who has never gotten up on a stage is a Rockstar. What the “stage” is varies by profession, but you need the pressure of performance to become truly easy and secure in your knowledge. And that confidence is the Rockstar.

But I’d never advertise a job using the word “Rockstar” because nobody – except you – knows what it means to me.

Great comment Martial. Maybe it could be posted to the main page?

Martial… that may be the most well written, articulate and thought provoking comment I have ever read on this Blog.