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Absolutely. A friend and I were having this discussion late last year. We both were part of the early web design movement and she lamented how now it’s all gloss, polish, and trying to sell you something.

What happened to the raw amateur pages about silly things? What happened to the “digital blackholes”? Where’s the sites that confuse us and challenge what we think the web is about? I hope they haven’t died, because I think we desperately need them to exist for web design to continue move forward.

We have noticed the same trend in our world. I call these sites “board room perfect”, glossy, shiny pixel perfect. They look good in the board room from a pure design point of view.

But they are frequently not “scannable”, and take more work on the part of the user to use them. The suits love them, but the users frequently need something else.

We get feedback about our website (e-commerce) about how easy it is to use, but usually followed with comments about how to “improve” the design.

We user test our designs using third party services and will optimize for user experience over pure pixel perfect gloss every time.

The thing is that most websites these days are about usability and clarity as opposed to interpretation. People come to websites to get information.

So how do we make a website that challenges our mind or emotions without people thinking it’s some sort of game or viral one-shot? What reason is there to return to a website that’s a piece of art?

web design is not art. art is not web design. the web is about usability.

classic 37s pomp.

Useful things were also art before the high/pop dichotomy ruined that.

The web is a chance to re-integrate everyday life and beauty.

Indeed. This page was referred to me by Stefan Manku. I believe I already practice this :) Customers want to see some humanistic attributes, not the standard web-gloss. My website is quite beautiful, but goes against current design trends. It’s called “throw it on and see what happens”. In my case, it works really well. I’ve already moved over £4 million of new cars, this month (Jan 2012). – Ling

In a word: No. There are many sites already out there that you could describe as the opposite of “clean and glossy”, and, although some of them are a joy to use, I find most of them to be too abstract to be usable. Sorry.

I disagree with these posts completely. Design is not about “breaking the norms” or standing out in a unique manner – it is about communicating information.

The problem we have with the junior designers is exactly this – they want their stuff to be cool, hip, artistic… to the point where they try to “sign” it.

Good design is about synthesizing information into an easily understood layout. It’s about communication, not about artistic expression.

Every new movement in modern art started as outsider art. What were Klimt, Kandinsky, Matisse, Rothko and the rest before they were accepted? Look at Banksy and Shepard Fairey now. Could they possibly be described as outsiders anymore?

Anyway, I’m not sure usability (@fu) necessarily equates to sameness. And to Jaime’s point, there definitely is a staleness to the current trends in web design. The same-old glossy site is definitely clear, but does it stand out? Does it need to? I thought 37signals stood for clarity and simplicity more than standing out just to be different.

@Ling Sorry, your site was about to give me a panic attack so I closed the tab about 5 seconds in. Not sure how that gives you an upper hand, tbh. I’d love to see some A/B testing on whether it’s a good idea to keep the seizure-inducing image on the right.

Whatever sells or converts the most wins.

Yes we did have outsider art for web design. It was called myspace.

Well I’m pretty sure there’s already a ton of websites that you could call “outside art”. The problem is that people aren’t aware of it. Outside Art existed for years till people started to recognize it.

(I’m a big fan of Henry Darger, you should check him out, his art is very wonderful in a disturbing way, and his biography is very interesting as well.)

Jamie: this idea of an ‘outsider web movement’ is a great one indeed. It comes at an interesting time – just as I feel boxed in by the high priests of the web community. Even Wilson Miner’s “When We Build” couldn’t shaken me from my slumber. We need an infusion of desert prophets in our community.

A few artists (see http://vvork.com and http://nastynets.com/) have been doing what could be called outsider web design for a few years. What’s interesting about their approach is that there’s a heavy strain of “defaultism” where they assert their designs by relying on browsers’ default styles – putting themselves on the outside by staying in.

Coincidentally saw this today:

http://www.tulving.com/

They did $650 million in sales last year.

Now let’s talk about “outsider programmers.”

Ling -

You’re in a unique position though as you’ve kind of cornered the market of curiously insane car leasing websites. It’s what you’re known for and as such have become fixed in people’s minds. Indeed the unique eye melting qualities of your site are your USP .

This is in no way a criticism though – you’re obviously doing something right – but I think the question must be whether you would have shifted £8m worth of cars if your site was less seizure inducing.

As someone said, most websites are not art in just the same way as a TV guide magazine isn’t a novel. What the TV guide does is give you what you need and as such needs to be designed to do so. Would it make sense to jumble up listings, use wild typography or create montages of photographs to convey this info? Probably not as it would be infuriating to find out when The Simpsons is on (yes I know it’s on ALL the time).

There are art projects on the web. There are artists using the web as a medium for their work and these are important and interesting. No doubt we can learn something from them but their raison d’être is entirely different to a banking site, e-commerce store or company ‘brochure’ site.

Outsider art is defined by its lack of knowledge about the art world, rather than its rejection of it. Outsider artists are the sort found in little rural places who never leave their homes. Where are within society is a conversation, they are speaking only to themselves. And not necessarily by choice.

I agree with your point, let’s rethink dominant trends in web design. But I don’t think outsider art is something a professional can ascribe to, certainly not at a company so steeped in conversation with the outside world. Great point, wrong analogy.

Joe

“Whatever sells or converts the most wins.”

You are correct. :)

Ling

Pete:

“I think the question must be whether you would have shifted £8m worth of cars if your site was less seizure inducing.”

God knows. But, I refuse to bore people to death.

Ling

IMHO Lings site is very clever, in itself the site is a differentiator. No idea if that was the intention but if you are searching for a lease car the numerous sites that follow the same functional format and look and feel blend into one and are soon forgotten. Colours and stuff stay in our brains, functional bread crumbs, beautiful shopping baskets all from agency wireframes costing $$$$$$ dont. There’s no emotional attachment with most sites

Once you break through the initial shock and awe and spend just a few mins looking through it you can see that behind the site is a conscientious business. Add to that good use of social media, humour and some pretty random stuff that keeps you on the site longer than you might otherwise have been i would imagine their conversion rates are pretty high. Would be interesting to compare omniture stats or something similar for a competitor i bet they get less initial drop outs but far less conversions after say 15 mins on the site and vice versa for for Lings.

@Nate Holy… is that… is that a MARQUEE tag?! Wow! I didn’t know they still existed! I’m surprised Safari here is actually rendering them at all! I mean, there’s “standards compliant” and there’s “having standards” :)

By the way, I’m not terribly surprised Tulving did over half a billion in sales, considering they’re selling gold and silver bullion :)

But perhaps there’s a profit-to-... shall we say “non-modern” webdesign rule here. Just look at Warren Buffett’s Berkshire-Hathaway. Personally, I kind of like B-H’s site for its stubborn simplicity – and because it didn’t choose a horrendous color scheme like Tulving. Still, I really wan’t to just add a dash of CSS whenever I see it… Just a little.

Outsider art is not a movement. As several people have mentioned, it emerges from a complete disinterest or obliviousness to the art world and movements in general.

So outsider art is just a generic term to describe works that many critics recognize the brilliance of, but can’t fit into a particular culture, genre, style, or theme. There’s an important link with mental illness here too.

Though to contradict myself, a more broad definition would encompass things like graffiti, which was a genuine outsider art, movement and eventually became mainstream, to the point where almost every city in the world has someone spraypainting bombings that are 99% derivative of style-wars era NYC wildstyle.

Outsider architecture? Hundertvasser house in Vienna perhaps? Now that would be an interesting influence on contemporary web design…