“Millennials” is the nickname for people born between 1980 and 1995. Last week, 60 minutes ran a story about this generation in the workplace. Here’s what viewers learned about this group from the story:
1. Many Milennials think anyone over 30 can’t be trusted and can’t be counted upon to be coherent.
2. Milennials want to “roll into work with their iPods and flip flops around noon, but still be CEO by Friday.”
3. Milennials need someone to teach them that they should cover up tattoos in the office, “especially if you are going to be meeting clients.” They also need to be taught how to eat with a knife and fork and how to work.
4. Milennials think living with your parents while in your mid 20s is “a very smart, wise, economic decision.”
5. Milennials’ parents sometimes phone HR and say, “But my little Susie or little Johnny didn’t get the performance evaluation that I think they deserve.”
6. The best way to keep Milennials as employees is to offer goofy parades, snoozing in the nap room, and plenty of happy hours. Also, managers should shave their head when a goal is reached. Or be in the dunk tank at the summer picnic. “When a senior manager’s willing to do that is, it says we’re all in it together.”
7. Milennials want employers to send a letter to their parents saying, “You know, Ryan did a great job. Yeah, I just wanted to let you know you raised a fantastic son.”
What a crock of shit.
Are you really telling me that 20 somethings don’t know how to use a knife and fork? (Are they potty trained yet?) And they really want managers to write gold star notes to their parents? And they really want to see their managers in the dunk tank at the summer picnic? Dunk tank at the summer picnic?! Yeah, that’s totally what kids are into these days. What on earth is this story talking about?
The unfortunate part: 60 Minutes is like catnip to old people and many of them probably bought into the whole piece. More fuel for the “these darn kids today” fire that older generations seem to love so much.
I guess it’s a constant cycle. “The greatest generation” is always the one that’s about to die. (Really, who can debate them? There’s no one around to argue that the greatest generation was actually those born between, say, 1620-1650.)
And this older group always thinks the latest generation is made up of lazy do-nothings who don’t understand hard work or discipline. It’s like that old Bill Cosby line: “We had to walk to school, ten miles, in the snow, uphill. Both ways!”
Too bad a respected media source like 60 Minutes is pushing this hokum though. I guess they have to sandwich all those Cialis ads with something that demographic will enjoy.
Adrian L
on 16 Nov 07Well, generalizations are dangerous, these ones no less than any other. They are inaccurate for many, but not for all. Your snide remarks about Cialis are every bit as inaccurate as you claim the 60 minutes piece is.
Some of the 20-somethings I’ve worked with are fantastic workers. They have energy and drive and bring their creativity to the table. And then I’ve worked with a bunch that make the 60 minutes opinion look gentle. And the ones in this second group seriously outnumber the ones in it.
But the real question is why you’re so incensed by the 60 minutes piece. Are you a milenial?
Mike
on 16 Nov 07Yeah, we are all so lazy … except that (in the USA at least, I do not know much about the inner workings of other countries) we will all be busy being productive worker bees to support an over extended social security and medicare system all the while trying to fix major problems caused by the retirees – broken government, over spending, broken entitlement system, environment going to hell, extreme political polarization, etc. We will have to fix their problems, problems they refused to fix and/or created themselves and then passed the buck to us on.
Most of the people around my age (I’m 28, so just outside of their range, but I still take offense) are hard working, responsible, AND PROFESSIONAL.
Give me a break (to quote John Stossel).
Mike Orren
on 16 Nov 07I’m no 60 Minutes apologist, but I’ll confess that I saw some nuggets of truth in this one. Yeah, they took it a bit over the top, but the one point that really hit home:
5. Milenials’ parents sometimes phone HR and say, “But my little Susie or little Johnny didn’t get the performance evaluation that I think they deserve.”
I’m 35 and have been managing/leading teams since I was 22. Only in the past year have I seen young employees’ parents getting involved - invasively - in their kids’ careers. Parents trying to negotiate employment contracts; showing up for performance reviews. And all shocked to hear that such things aren’t appropriate.
Perhaps the story isn’t the millenials, but the generation prior…
Adrian L
on 16 Nov 07“And the ones in this second group seriously outnumber the ones in the first”.
Jesper
on 16 Nov 07Such idiocy of them to air something like that.
Are there people out there like this? Doubtlessly. Do the more conventional parts of their generation outnumber them in the same way old, grumpy, whiny people are outnumbered by more reasonable elderly folks? Of course.
If you have a problem with specific individuals, deal with them. Perhaps stereotypes are born out of actual facts, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t then blown out of proportion, like any game that involves passing information about an unknown or weakly defined third party between several people.
I thought the 60 Minutes reporters were better than this.
ML
on 16 Nov 07But the real question is why you’re so incensed by the 60 minutes piece. Are you a milenial?
No, I’m not a millennial. I’m annoyed by the story because I think it’s 1) full of crap and 2) a demonstration of shoddy reporting by a source I normally respect.
Mike Rundle
on 16 Nov 07Yeah this is complete bullshit. Too bad they didn’t report on all the “millennials” who are so driven and smart that they earn more money than their parents currently do. Or the ones who knock out a PhD before they’re 25 just because they love a particular subject so much. I have to admit though, I guess the #2 point hits a little close to home since I do stroll into ‘work’ around noon and do wear flip-flops. Unfortunately, ‘work’ is my home office and I’ve been the CEO for awhile now, but CBS would never want to report on that phenomenon lest they piss off watchers who toiled away at Megacorp, Inc. for 30 years before retiring.
beth
on 16 Nov 07I take big issue with number 4. I read an article recently (I think it was in Fortune) explaining soaring tuition and student loan debt is what’s sending kids back home after college.
I had to move home for a year after I finished school, I simply couldn’t have afforded my predatory student loan payments otherwise.
So 60 Minutes would you have us not go to college because moving back home afterwards is oh so shameful?
John
on 16 Nov 07This is not just 60 minutes. I was just at a workshop on Generations in the Workplace. They told us these very things about Millennials. I can’t imagine my parents calling up someone I work with. That is scary!
This is the kind of crap that HR consultants are feeding corporate America right now.
JCK
on 16 Nov 07@Adrian L
“Some of the 20-somethings I’ve worked with are fantastic workers. They have energy and drive and bring their creativity to the table. And then I’ve worked with a bunch that make the 60 minutes opinion look gentle. And the ones in this second group seriously outnumber the ones in it.”
Replace “20-somethings” with “30-sometimes,” “40-somethings,” “50-somethings,” and, somehow, it all still applies.
Lots of people (most?) are bad workers, according to at least one person’s definition. This is no secret, nor anything new.
Axel
on 16 Nov 07Are companies with young employees really a one-off? You only “need” to cover up your tattoos if you’re going to a meeting with other companies that are made up of “old” people. Will those tattoos come out when the old-farts are no longer running the companies you’re trying to partner with?
Adrian L
on 16 Nov 07@JCK
Totally agree.
On the other hand, I’ve seen a lot of stuff like this article by a 20-something. If this is representative of the attitude of the majority of 20-somethings, they are in for a shock when the real world fails to get out of their way.
One of the weird things is that generational stuff seems to matter a lot to boomers and the so-called milenials, but somehow those who should be called Gen X don’t seem to care so much about the label. Of course, I have no empirical evidence to support this.
Nick Husher
on 16 Nov 07This isn’t true!? [/kidding]
Dave Stern
on 16 Nov 07I saw this with a few friends after football, and we were completely cracking up.
I think it’s all part and parcel with 60 Minutes; you get some of the only meaningful investigative reporting on network television, and in return you have to put up with the old people being confused about things and also Andy Rooney.
dmolsen
on 16 Nov 07I’m with Mike Orren on this. Admittedly I see kids in college daily and not in a true work environment but there is a kernel of truth to some of it. Especially point number 5. It’s sad that the helicopter parent effect is moving from college to the work place.
Douglas
on 16 Nov 07I am a “millenial,” (born in ‘82), but I’d like to point out that the idea that anyone over 30 can’t be trusted (or, to quote Swimming With Sharks, “It’s like they say, if you’re not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven’t turned establishment by 30, you’ve got no brains.”) isn’t exactly a new one. It’s been around at least since the emergence of the American youth subculture – see Elvis and Rebel Without A Cause.
But what is more annoying about this “story” from 60 Minutes is that it’s designed to divide people into separate camps, each with their own labels. It’s not that much different from the recent American hyper-partisanship in that it’s not very productive to any real movement forward in a time where Americans have already been splintered into cultural factions over the past decade.
A little bit of anecdotal evidence: none of my friends in my age group live with their parents, none of them want parental intervention in the workplace (or workplace intervention with the parents, for that matter), we all know how to eat with a fork and knife, and gasp, we are potty trained.
Todd Dominey
on 16 Nov 07It wouldn’t surprise me at all if CBS picked this story up from NPR, which has run a number of stories on workplace millennials over the past few months. Mostly from a HR perspective, on their “special needs” and what-not.
For me it’s more of the same—media and marketers attempting to compartmentalize masses of people into tidy definitions for economic purposes.
Seems to me the older you get, the more self-entitled and spoiled you think younger generations are.
mom
on 16 Nov 07Does Matty need a cookie. Now take that scowl off your face and come give me a hug. There, don’t you feel better.
What were we talking about?
Patrick
on 16 Nov 07I’m 41 myself and these generalization drive me crazy. If fact the business world needs to pay close attention to changing times. I can understand why you need to go by strict time table in things like factory work or farming but asking everyone to come into an office at 8am just because that is the way it is done is an “old school” way of thinking. A lady in my church who is single and in her 50’s recently lost her job. They told her to pack her stuff and leave by the end of the day. Why? Her health was not that good (I know she has struggled with diabetes for one thing) and she has had weight issues. One of the things they got her own was coming in late a lot but never recognized she usually stayed later than most people and was extremely loyal and a good worker.
I do agree however that people should not expect to become the CEO overnight just because a lucky few in silicon valley have done the same thing. A big problem like someone mentioned is not the current generation per se but rather the previous one. You see more and more kids with allergies these days than I did growing and I fear a big part of that was parents who protected them too much when they were young. Their is something to be said for “natural immunization”. more kids need to “eat dirt”, have experiences where they lose from time to time, etc.
Kevin Linn
on 16 Nov 07I’m 44 years old and I have to agree with not trusting anyone over 30. Personally, I’m learning more now from the 20-somethings I work with than I’ll ever learn from the over 30 crowd. I’ve figured out that old farts really want to be old farts and that 60 minutes hasn’t been relative since they tried to make Meryl Streep the spokesperson for the apple industry. If you’re worried about the age of the people you work with then please, please trade your flip-flops for loafers and an afghan and enjoy your life with dinner at 4:30 and make sure you watch 60 Minutes before you go to bed at 8:00 on Sunday nights.
FredS
on 16 Nov 07Seems to me the older you get, the more self-entitled and spoiled you think younger generations are.
Yeah, but…but…it’s TRUE!! Damn kids!
FredS
on 16 Nov 07also of note: 60 minutes and CBS are now offering employees Old Glory Insurance as part of their benefits package.
Anonymous Coward
on 16 Nov 07I had to sit through a 15 minute discussion about this at an all-staff meeting at work today (gag x2). I just hope I covered my eye-rolls sufficiently.
Seriously, anytime a paradigm is challenged those in power get defensive because they don’t want the system they have created to be “wrong,” nobody likes change, and they are jealous of the relative lack of challenges the next generation had to face. The argument made is usually from the wrong perspective, of forced compliance or coddling, instead of seeing what the groups can learn from each other.
Kenny Meyers
on 16 Nov 07Hey Folks, 24 year old here.
I’ve never heard of people having their parents call in. In all my friends, friends of friends and previous job acquaintances, that has never happened. Yes, people’s parents have hooked them up with jobs BUT who hasn’t had someone hook them up with a job, parent OR friend.
In our lifetime we’ve seen: 1. The Economy Boom 2. The Economy Bust in a big way 3. The value of a college degree lessen 4. No fix for Medicare 5. No fix for Social Security (I’m not suggesting these are easy fixes) 6. 9/11 7. The Iraq & Afghanistan War 8. The invention and proliferation of the internet.
Numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 have led to severe disenfranchisement and distrust of people in the baby boomer generation.
The economic bust of the internet era makes us not trust Generation X.
Number 3 is interesting though, because its an economic issue. More people are getting degrees. So, obviously, there is either the funding or the value in getting a college education.
The tattoo thing may actually be a cultural difference between generations. Perhaps for X it was the rebellious thing to do, for Baby Boomers it is out of the question, but for myself and my friends it is commonplace. I am one of my few friends who doesn’t have a tattoo. So, obviously, the negative perception of tattoos will probably disappear, much like “casual” dress at work did.
Adrian L: We don’t expect the world to get out of our way, but there’s a helplessness involved here. I can’t give you a solid fact-based reason, but the best example I can give is we’re dealing with a president whom doesn’t change policy, no matter what. People are no longer having “careers”. We are entering a work-force where nothing is solidified. In the 80s, the idea of pensions were still around. In 90s, you had a great economy. Where’s our motivator?
Can we work? Yes. We can work hard, but we don’t want to work 12 hours unless we love what we’re doing. That’s not an attitude of selfishness in our generation, it’s an attitude communicated to us by older generations.
But, as with every generalization (and this is a LARGE group of people) there are those who fit the bill and those who don’t.
Now, excuse me, I need to call my mother so she can proof read this comment.
Cameron Watters
on 16 Nov 07Wait, 60 Minutes ran a report that said that people under age 27 are naive, idealistic and have unrealistic expectations about how grown-up life works? I’m sorry, this is news?
Assuming we’re talking kids with college degrees (which is clearly the target of this report), the OLDEST of this group has been on the job for 5 years at MOST.
Most of them have grown up in an educational system (USA, anyway) that abhors honest evaluations of performance, preferring to instill a sense of intrinsic value by praising wrong answers as “fabulous effort” and other patronizing, obsequious pap.
It’s also a generation raised by so-called “helicopter parents” that, in some cases, have over-participated in their children’s lives since toddler-hood.
I’d say this report reflects more poorly on the parents of the previous generation than it does on the generation itself.
Also, I’m willing to bet that the audience of this blog is generally made up of people who either are or are working with “millennials” not fitting the 60 Minutes picture. That doesn’t mean they’re not out there.
Kenny Meyers
on 16 Nov 07As a side note, the name normally given to us is “generation y”, this millennium moniker is new. You wouldn’t even give us our own generation name, just the letter that came after X.
BHayden
on 16 Nov 0760 Minutes is a laughfest. I’m 28. That said:
I’m an IT professional at one of the largest universities in the States and the world. I deal with college students both as students and workers, and with recent grads in a myriad of ways.
And this story is accurate.
Now, obviously, it does not apply to everyone, or even anywhere near a majority. But it applies to a sizable minority. When these sorts of behaviors and expectations were nearly unheard-of 20 years ago, this is worth talking about. The issue, particularly, of parents of not only students but “professionals” up to 30 and beyond being involved in their child’s work life is one that is both utterly absurd and quite serious. It’s maddening, revolting, and something that people have to deal with.
If you haven’t seen it, don’t extrapolate your limited experience to the world at large… precisely what you accuse those old folks at 60 Minutes of doing. This is all becoming pervasive (friends and colleagues at all larger firms and employers, up to joints like Accenture, are having to deal with it)—if you don’t think so, you’re lucky.
Tyler
on 16 Nov 07Hey, I’m a 20-something, can someone help me out? What’s a 60 minutes?
JohnO
on 16 Nov 07They don’t want to be CEO but they do want to be heard and have an impact in the organization.
Both #2 and #3 with the flip-flops and tatoos just means that they don’t want to be two people, one at work and one at home. They are always the same person. They bring their work life home, and their home life to work – lines are blurring.
I work in a company (and I’m 24) that recognizes we are who we are and aren’t going to change just for other people’s preferences – and allows us to be those people. They also allow us to impact the running of the company directly. A good third of the company falls into this category. And, as to the hard work aspect, we are the ones pushing the company to make more money.
Ryan F
on 16 Nov 07So their generation continues to screw over our generation with new taxes, poor social security and retirement programs, and an increasingly polluted environment…and we’re the good-for-nothings?
Megan
on 16 Nov 07I work for a university and I would say that some of this is partially true. It is a gross exaggeration, at least from what I know about the experiences we have with students here. Staff and faculty have been receiving more calls from parents over the past few years, but it’s certainly not true that this happens with all students or even the majority of students. You do occasionally get a parent calling to insist that a prof change their child’s grade or admin staff give them a particular residence room and things like that.
The sense of entitlement you see a little bit too. Like students expecting to get exactly what they want and then getting mad when they don’t (or the parents call and yell at somebody). Again, though, not as pervasive as this 60 minutes seems to make it out to be.
But, as someone else mentioned, I think this is more of a problem with the parents than with the students. I also think a lot of these are general trends that have been going on for years. When I graduated 7 years ago a lot of people I knew moved back home – that’s not exactly a new trend.
I do find many positive things about the current crop of undergrads. They seem to have more energy and motivation than students did in the past. But I agree with someone above who talked about dividing people into groups. It’s not good to be labelling all of the people in one generation as being this way or that way.
Ray Morgan
on 16 Nov 07I work at one of the millennial companies showed: Zappos.com. Let me say after they aired this piece, many of us were quite disappointed with it. We work, hard. We don’t slack around all day and sleep. We have fun… but never does that fun take place of working.
I totally agree with you Matt; this was a demeaning story by a usually respectable source.
Mike
on 16 Nov 07Ha. This story was ridiculous. I’m sad that this was on 60 minutes. They have so much quality stories in the past.
It’s good that young people don’t just want to contribute to a business just to please the boss. Work is about something more important than taking orders.
The old people in the video seem afraid, but I think it’s exciting. Let’s see what happens. They just don’t understand. Or maybe this story is just told poorly.
It’s almost funny because they are focusing on the negatives so much. I wonder if 60 minutes made this crappy on purpose to entertain a certain crowd. I’m insulted.
My favorite news show now is the “Charlie Rose” show. He does great, honest interviews.
Matt Brown
on 16 Nov 07I know it bugs these older people who piss on us that we absorb, understand and use so much technology now-a-days. Things move faster and times have changed. They can’t keep up and it drives them nuts!
Jason G
on 16 Nov 07We were actually taught the differences between these generational groups at a Supervisory Skills class at my job. As if this information was supposed to help supervisors understand and deal with these perfectly divided groups of people.
I’ll remember the ‘stroll in at noon in flip-flops’ thing when I get here Monday morning at 7:30 am in my shirt and tie.
Frakety Frak
on 16 Nov 07Personally, I find that people in all generations are fools. People are sheep.
Sure, some people can’t use a folk and knife, but everyone’s farts stink as much as the next person. Except my sister. She still maintains that she doesn’t fart to this day.
Craig Kocur
on 16 Nov 07I work for a bank and once a year I go to a conference. Every year at that conference there is a presentation about how to market to, or serve, Gen Y. Every year it takes everything in my power to not jump up and scream at the presenter about 5 minutes in. They go through the attributes of Gen Y like zoologists talking about panda bears. Maybe I’m sensitive about this because I’m part of Gen X, and the memories of our media dissection are still fresh, but I just don’t see how people aren’t able to see any variations in generations other than their own.
Peter Cooper
on 16 Nov 07Heck, I’m one of these “millennials” and I have much respect for my elders.. I think it’s people in MY generation who are full of it. Anyway, it was right on one point:
Milennials think living with your parents while in your mid 20s is “a very smart, wise, economic decision.”
My wife and I own our own home, but if I were single then I totally agree.. living on your own is most likely the wisest move regarding housing, especially nowadays. If you can save money that way (and I mean really save it, not spend it on shoes or gadgets) then it makes sense to save your money for buying a house rather than throwing it into the rental black hole. As it was, my parents were old-school and charged me a near-market rent, so I had motivation to move away!
rick
on 16 Nov 07I know it bugs these older people who piss on us that we absorb, understand and use so much technology now-a-days. Things move faster and times have changed. They can’t keep up and it drives them nuts!
Funny, isn’t this a line from an Elvis movie, no wait, it was something I heard when MTV debuted, no wait, I must have heard this when the million-dollar-homepage was covered by CNN.
Just so all of you know, every 20 year old believes this, has always believed this and will always believe this.
Brian
on 16 Nov 07Most of that is a little exaggerated and doesn’t apply to the entire age range of millenials, but there is something wrong when parents attend job interviews with their children, or write a nasty e-mail to a university for not putting their homecoming court child on the university homepage. A vast majority of kids these days are babied by their parents and expect the same when they get to their job, there is no doubt about that.
alex
on 16 Nov 07it’s even worse than this…
CM
on 16 Nov 07I’m a boomer and I’m glad I had an non-digital childhood. Slot cars were pretty cool. I think it’s the duty of every generation to dumbfound the preceding one.
Matt Brown
on 16 Nov 07@rick – I bet you drive a Buick and watch Wheel of Fortune every night… come on, admit it… ; )
Lee Coursey
on 16 Nov 07Cameron Watters and BHayden said most of what I wanted to say.
The Baby Boomers screwed up most of this country by trying to find an easier or different way of doing everything traditional, and they resented anyone who pointed out the flaws in their plans. Two generations later we had kids who don’t even know that they don’t know basic table manners and office decorum. If you tell them they’re being rude, unprofessional, or otherwise “not normal” they’ll laugh in your face and tell you it doesn’t matter…. and they really don’t care what their employers opinion is because they’re usually self-justified. They’d rather quit than dress appropriately.
Anthony
on 16 Nov 07I work at in marketing at a university and understanding the millennial generation is our main focus right now. I didn’t see the 60 Minutes report but it doesn’t sound far off the mark.
(In fact, we had an event last spring with a dunk tank and everyone loved it when authority figures found themselves in the hot seat, including one of our vice presidents.)
I’m willing to consider their report is wrong but as you said, 60 Minutes is a “respected media source” and you’ve offered no evidence to support your argument.
rick
on 16 Nov 07@matt – as a believer in the Milennial concept of transparency, here goes: I drive a toyota, watch TiVo at night (The Office is #1, but I fear they have jumped the shark), I twitter but don’t know why and I’m listening to The Shins via last.fm as you read this. Oh, and I’m almost 40.
Henrik
on 16 Nov 07I was thinking about writing about this piece myself, since I actually am a millennial.
I’m currently employed at the largest media organization in Europe, and I can easily say that the generalization made by the once-so-trustworthy 60 Minutes is the most disappointing piece they’ve ever made.
At my department (“New Media”), there’s not a single person under 35, and it is by far the department that brings in the most money.
After this report, I’d say that 60 Minutes shouldn’t come near subjects which involves the younger generation, since one easily can say that it’s way out of their scope.
Glen Barnes
on 16 Nov 07I think Monty Python sums it up best.
And you try and tell the young people of today that ….. they won’t believe you.
Grant Griffiths
on 16 Nov 07You are assuming a lot calling 60 minutes a respected media. Think about it. CBS and the former Dan Rathers who likes to fabricate stories to boast ratings.
I was born in 1960. We put up with the same shit when I was younger. The previous generation always think they are the best thing since sliced bread. And most of the reports on 60 minutes were born before they even invented sliced bread.
I would not worry too much about what 60 minutes says. The best way to counter such a story is to counter it with the way one lives their life. If any generation acts the way they describe the “Millennials”, they will be categorized like that. The Millennials need to do what every previous “picked” generation has done before them. Prove the bastards wrong.
Victor Agreda Jr
on 16 Nov 07Glen, great quote. There are hundreds across history saying the same (or similar thing). Like that nugget from Plato a few centuries back.
My complaint? At least, the only one I can factually back up ;)
Generations are actually 20 year spans, not 15. Maybe if 60 Min. bothered to do research they’d have discovered this…
Don Schenck
on 16 Nov 07My son’s a “millenial”; daughter missed it by one year.
He’s a ex-Marine (is there such a thing as an “ex”?) and currently getting his PhD at New York University in Computational Biology. Yeah … I’m proud of him.
I bet he’d like to “discuss” this with some of those nimrods at CBS.
They’d come out with a different opinion regarding “millenials” ... and a ton of respect for the USMC (if, that is, they could WALK afterwards).
Tools.
Brian
on 16 Nov 07There is too much talk about the actual technology and material items millenials use. Who cares, many non-millenials use them too. The focus is instead on their behaviors. They study hard, and work hard because they know what they want (and what they’re parents are pushing them to), but they also expect shit to be handed to them, and when it’s not, they act childish. Gen-X went out and got things for themselves because they were left at home by themselves while their baby boomer parents worked non-stop. Now Gen-X is having kids, and they’re babying their children (millenials) because their baby boomer parents weren’t home for them when they were that age. Anyone who falls into the millenial age group will of course cry bullshit because they’re not on the outside looking in.
Gary
on 16 Nov 07I’m a Gen-Xer, born 1972. 15-20 years ago, Gen-Xers were lazy slackers who were never going to work more than McJobs and also lived with their parents forever and also were over-protected and didn’t know the value of a dollar and so on and so forth. Then came the late 90s and we were all regarded as internet wunderkinds and dotcom geniuses (and millionaires). Both were completely ridiculous and completely true.
Welcome to the next iteration of the cycle, you guys. All the same stuff was said about boomers in the early 70s, that they were raised by television, didn’t know the value of a dollar, expected jobs handed to them, etc.
I’m sure it goes back to freakin’ Ovid and Plato.
Elissa
on 16 Nov 07This is another one of those “oh my god, people are DIFFERENT?!” issues that a select group of the human race just can’t seem to deal with, let alone comprehend. Most of the “millennial issues” that 60 Minutes covered are situational and obviously ALL of it is just one big generalization.
If any part of a millennial’s way of living and working is an actual issue, then it should be addressed. If a millennial strolls into work at noon, clearly he/she should be fired, right? Cause that’s just absurd… coming in at NOON (and working til midnight… oh wait, no one mentioned THAT part)! But, are any of them being fired for that? Are they even being TOLD that they CAN’T do that? Probably not… and therein lies the problem. You can’t complain about the problem if you’re not doing anything to FIX the problem.
Fazal Majid
on 16 Nov 07I’m 37, and I have never read from Millennials the kind of narcissistic self-indulgent tripe Baby Boomers write about themselves (and to a lesser extent Gen-Xers). That in itself speaks well of them.
The pop-cultural phenomenon of grouping and segregating people by age class is something specifically American. I don’t see these categories used much in France, for instance, even though young people arguably have a harder deal there because of rigid employment policies that sort of preserve the jobs of the old at the expense of massive unemployment among the young.
Fazal Majid
on 16 Nov 07Gary, it does go back to Plato quoting (or more likely, putting words in the mouth of) Socrates:
source
James Thompson
on 16 Nov 07What a load of garbage. I’m on the older end of that spectrum (1982) and I have few friends who fit into any of that nonsense. My friends and I all bust our butts at work, more than a few of us run our own businesses. The notion of “youngsters” being lazy is just ridiculous.
It’s too bad that this attitude is pervasive within more narrow segments as well. As a young Southern Baptist I get spitting mad about the nonsense concerning abstinence from alcohol trumpeted by the “old guard.” And I’m not alone, nor is that the only issue on which, when scrutinized, it’s the older generation that are clearly wrong and if not physically, then at times, intellectually lazy.
rick
on 16 Nov 07@fazal I totally agree. My observations of German, Italian and French society (having worked there, and worked with Europeans for a number of years) is that young people are simply ignored.
The French detest/admire the Americans FTW attitude. The source of this attitude – I give you exhibit A.
Untrustworthy
on 16 Nov 07I think the spin on the millennials story was a little silly, & something of an exaggeration (but then you expect that from the news…60 minutes included). But I think there were a couple of core truths in the story that no one is talking about.
They spin the young workers as self absorbed, but having your priorities right doesn’t make you shallow or narcissistic. Deciding that your quality of life is worth something, & that hiking or yoga is important & that you won’t be working late on those nights doesn’t make you a flake. It means that you’re not a moron. Lot’s of people invested their whole life in “the company”, only to have the company ditch them when it was outsourcing expedient didn’t really work out for the “older, wiser” folks that “paid their dues” & towed the company line. Understanding that corporations are in it for the quarterly returns & not their employees seems patently obvious to me. Telling a company, “you’ve got to create a work environment that doesn’t crush my soul & allows me to have a life.” Doesn’t seem naive or childish to me, it’s seems damns smart.
As for being unwilling to pay their dues & expecting to move up based on merit & not based on the years that they’ve been a corporate worker drone…Duh! The big success stories these days aren’t people who “put their time in” for 20 years. It’s the bright creative people who aren’t yet a slave to the stolid status quo. They start companies of their own, they work at start ups, they generate a-typical ideas. Instead of hiring consultants to teach them how to use a knife & fork (good God!) & training them to act like the old school, the corps should be milking them for new ideas before they head off to the next opportunity.
The current context is a direct result of any reasonable observer’s understanding of state of company loyalty in our economy. It’s a thing of the past. A smart careerist is gathering skills, negotiating with your current employer for the best shake, & looking for the next opportunity.
Terry Sutton
on 16 Nov 07I’d LOVE to move home. 26 now and still with 9 years of student loan payments. I make a very sensible salary at this age, but still can’t afford somewhere sensible. A full 25% of my net take home goes to student loans.
Steve
on 16 Nov 07The news makes sweeping generalizations? Are you implying I might have to come to my own decisions via personal experience?!
Splashman
on 16 Nov 07Matt, the only element of your post I take issue with is your last-paragraph characterization of 60 Minutes. If at any time in the last decade you actually considered it to be a “trusted media source” . . . well, nothing more to be said.
Icelander
on 16 Nov 07The idea that millenials are lazy is ridiculous. Unlike most previous generations, more often than not we’ve worked our way through college.
My wife is getting her masters in psychology. Unlike what her professors went through, she’s working full time and doing her unpaid internship. She’s also working harder to make sure her papers could not possibly be plagiarized because the automated tools could show false positives, which would mean an end to her academic career. And all of this on top of helping to raise our baby girl.
Or maybe we realize that dressing in a suit and tie doesn’t automatically mean working harder or better. My job has a casual dress code and it makes things easier on me: I don’t have to go buy two sets of clothes, I can wake up later, throw some jeans and a t shirt on and be at work more rested.
Brandon
on 16 Nov 07@Gary – Exactly what I was about to say. I think it’s hilarious how the Gen X list has suddenly become super positive and all of the things that were said about the “Slacker Generation” are now being tossed on to the next one. So basically “Those damn teenagers!”
What’s horrid about this is that I know one very large corporation who recently put this into its “Diversity Training” (you know, the training that supposed to remove stereotypes?). It was ended with “Now you know the people you work with”. No discussion, no questions, no defense. So while all of the other generations in the room got off with roses, the so called Gen-Yers or millennials got crapped upon and sent on their way.
That’s a bit scary.
Mad William Flint
on 16 Nov 07And like every generation of post-teens before it, Millennials want respect without earning it.
tora
on 16 Nov 07I didn’t watch the show, never have, just not that interested in news shows irregardless of source. However when any person or entity makes such an incredibly overreaching generalization it is bound to be both correct and incorrect. It would seem from all the comments that this is what the 60-minutes show has done, and the ensuing debate shows there are clearly some biases at work and that perhaps, if we really want to get to the bottom (and truth) of all this, we ought to do some real research and find out some more details. It would also be prudent, during the course of that research, to look at previous generations, not only for the impact it’s had on Gen Y, but also for how each behaved at their younger ages.
There are countless factors that make a person behave as they do, hence creating individuals, and as such no person can be counted on to think or act in the same way every time, so to even make a generalization about one individual is a path dangerously close to making false statements.
Unfortunately, this is what 60 minutes has done, and what countless other shows do on a daily basis, and it is done out of necessity for one cannot drum up the statistics that everyone loves without it. And this, my friends, is why I avoid news shows… Cheers!
Matt Russell
on 16 Nov 07My boss just came in yesterday and proceeded to tell me about “this 60 Minutes special” on millennials he had watched, which had me looking incredulous by the end of his recap. This link just found its way to his inbox, haha. Thanks, Matt.
Tom G.
on 16 Nov 07Huh, years ago they called this the “The generation gap.”
Andrew Sutherland
on 16 Nov 07My U.S. Government teacher taped this last week and brought it into class for our class of high school seniors to watch. There wasn’t a single person watching it by the end of the program – they had all fallen asleep, myself included :)
Chad
on 16 Nov 07Millenial here – 1980 model. I would imagine that this ridiculous argument has been going on since we started making tools. “Damn kids are a cracking rocks in half and skinning hides to get the meat. Then they have the nerve to wear the hides for warmth! We didn’t need any damn hides to keep warm!”
The definition of hard work (via Seth Godin) changes with every generation.
Hilarious post, thanks.
Aaron
on 16 Nov 07Technology!!!!! Morley Scared!!!!
M
on 16 Nov 07How can someone chastise others about living with parents as an economic decision, if it was the same generation that got the housing prices up in the stratosphere and saddled young people with student loan debts so large that it takes till their thirties to pay them off?
Marie
on 16 Nov 07I’m a high school senior as well, in response to the comment before mine. My chemistry teacher showed this to us.
I think the 60 minute special was correct.
Obviously, not ever “millennial” is going to fit this description. But there IS a growing trend.
I found some of the things said in that special scarily correct. Yes, I grew up with the phrase “you can do whatever you want to do when you grow up” and the continuous praise for “just trying”. I will admit, I feel under appreciated when I don’t get praise for even the grades that aren’t the best.
My parents have tried to solve MY problems, wanting to talk to my teachers. I have had to growl through my teeth to ask them to back off; I can solve my own problems.
I KNOW not all parents are like this, not everyone in this generation are like this. But I can see through my own experiences that this is true.
It may or not be a bad thing, but the workforce IS changing, is it not?
And I think that it’s important to recognize this difference so that we can deal with it, instead of arguing and being ignorant of it.
By the way, the fact that you don’t TRUST the media, would show that you’re a gen x ;) whereas my regard for the media being IRRELEVANT to the problem at hand would be my millennialism :P
btw. considering you are not a millenial you cannot argue that we don’t want to see our boss in a dunk tank. :P
AND 60 minutes did not say anything about previous generations being greater. They merely pointed out the growing trend in our society.
Matt Brown
on 16 Nov 07Yeah, I mean, look how cool Will Ferrell was in Wedding Crashers. He lived at home with his mom.
Will Pate
on 16 Nov 07You know, I really don’t think baby boomers want to play the “who’s more effed up” game with young people. Their track record isn’t spotless.
SWW
on 16 Nov 07Yeah, but we hear a lot of other stuff about how the “kids today” are way smarter and mature than all the old people and nobody over 30 can set their VCR clock much less sync an iPod. So maybe it evens out.
60 Minutes did drop a sarcastic line in at some point about how much $$ consultants are making out of turning the whole thing into an industry. Only in America.
Ricky Irvine
on 16 Nov 07What a load garbage. I come from 1983 and nothing on that list is representative of me or most people my age that I know.
Mike D
on 16 Nov 07well you say I’m twenty something and should be slacking / but I’m working harder than ever and you could call it macking / so I’m supposed to sit upon my couch watching my TV / I’m still listening to wax, I’m not using the CD
Bob Selby
on 16 Nov 07I have a Millenial employee actually named Ryan who doesn’t cover up his tatoos and used to come into the office in flip-flop format until we changed our company dress policy.
But I haven’t heard from his parents, he’s motivated by results, and altho he may have trusted me by copying me on this post, may not after he reads this.
BTW I’m a boomer and don’t watch sixty minutes.
Ricky Irvine
on 16 Nov 07I just watched the video. This seems to be more about younger people actively questioning old career stereotypes/standards, and those older generations not quite understanding it why. But, for myself, that is the very q
Ricky Irvine
on 16 Nov 07I just watched the video. This seems to be more about younger people actively questioning old career stereotypes/standards, and those older generations not quite understanding why. But, for myself, that is the very question that I want answered. Why? Why do we do the things we do? And why should we continue them? Are there better ways? Can I do things differently and just as (or more) efficiently? Is there any real value in corporate social rules, or would people rather be engaged as real people?
Joe
on 16 Nov 07You have all resorted to debating whether the CBS article is accurate, but I think you’ve missed the bigger question, which is this:
What’s wrong with being a millenial?
I don’t see anything wrong with a workplace in which everyone (young, old, everyone) is nice and respectful to each other. I don’t see anything wrong with workers wearing flip flops and coming in at noon, so long as you also get your work done well and on time. I don’t see anything wrong with employees prioritizing their personal lives ahead of work, provided that their work is also important to them.
Americans have long been fascinated by the idea of job security. Since we first rolled in from the farm and became an industrialized society more than a century ago, we have all been enamored with this idea that to pay the bills, you need a job. And to have a job means a boss. And to have a boss means you need to do whatever he says.
There’s something inherently ridiculous with that mentality, however. The baby-boomers in particular seem obsessed with job security, to the point that they are willing to work long hours, neglect their families and sacrifice their dreams in order to maintain a paycheck.
The millenials are unwilling to sacrifice their happiness for job security, largely because they saw what it did to their parents. The mentality is simple: If you have to work, you might as well be happy.
What’s wrong with that?
The millenials were certainly coddled as youngsters. There’s no question about that. Their egos are clearly outrageously large. But what’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with employees who feel good about themselves, who insist on finding happiness in their careers? What’s wrong with worker mobility? What’s wrong with a generation of folks who want to work, but also want to be happy?
I submit that the values of the millenials are inherently a good thing. You can - and should - ridicule the more ridiculous of them, such as the guy whose mom calls the HR department. But the majority of the millenials are whip-smart, tech-savvy, efficient, creative folks. They work hard, but even more importantly, they work fast, and they want to work happy.
There is a predisposition among the older generations that work, by its very definition, is not fun. The baby-boomers frequently draw distinctions between “work” and “play”. If it’s “work”, it’s not fun. If it’s “fun”, it’s not work.
The millenials, by comparison, may be the first generation in history to seriously wonder whether work and fun can’t be the same thing.
The notions of “hard work” and “paying your dues” are clearly lost on the millenials. But is that really such a bad thing? Does it not also make sense, in today’s electronic world, to encourage smart, efficient and creative work? In the post-industrial era, is “hard” work really more valuable than “fast” work, “good” work or “fun” work?
We stand now on a verge of a very interesting next step in our economy. We are transitioning from a labor-intensive, class-based industrial machine to a fluid, personality-driven, entreprenurial and individual-centric economy. I submit to you that the strength of this new economy is best captured not by today’s managerial baby-boomers, but by the millenials who will soon replace them.
Yes, I am a millenial. And proud of it.
Matt
on 16 Nov 07There was an old man working on his farm. He worked very hard digging holes in the dirt with his bare hands. He worked from sunrise to sunset until his hands were swollen with blisters. He did the same thing day after day until all his crops were planted. It was painstaking work.
One day a young traveller came by his farm and saw the old man digging the holes with his hand. He yelled out to the old man, grabbed a shovel out of his sack and ran to the old man to show him. He shoveled a few holes to show the old man how he could improve his progress.
The old man, seeing the youngster accomplish more in a few minutes than it took him in hours, became agitated and furious. He yelled and berated the younger man and told him to take his shovel and get lost.
After the traveller left, the old man went back to digging the holes with his hands.
—
I think a lot of the questioning of work ethic from the older generation comes as a result of jealousy.
nubizus
on 16 Nov 07Hey, just ignore that part of the world that is still thinking in “older” way:)) Stupidity is all around us. I am over 30 and i work with 3 millennials. The fun part is that one of the millennials is our boss:)) Smart, educated, open minded and wise enough to say that he has no experience but he is ready to learn. Jealousy is bad for health.
Kevin Milden
on 16 Nov 07I have seen some lazy mother fuckers and some really hard working people within that age group.
But I have also seen a lot of greed and selfishness out of the 60 min demographic. Sue culture, divorce culture, me generation. I think it has lead to a lot of the pollution we have today in government, media, and the environment. I think we have to remember these were the folks who felt the best way to stop a war was to get high, grow your hair long and listen to rock music. Real winners.
I don’t see that as much with the Millennials. We seem to want to fix things. Make it better. Business minded. Be Practical. We want to cut the shit and forget the picnics.
Douglas F Shearer
on 17 Nov 07I’m 22, and all I did today was read my RSS!
Of course, it’s 18 minutes past midnight, and I worked 10 hours yesterday, so I guess I’m not that lazy.
Chris Vincent
on 17 Nov 07I’m 21 and I make more money than my mom who worked her ass off raising me and my brother and just trying to make ends meet. I started my first online business during my junior year in high school and now I work part-time as a PHP consultant while simultaneously maintaining and developing my business. And yes, I often stroll into work around noon, complete with iPod and flip flops. But don’t let my relaxed getup and demeanor trigger assumptions that I’m some kind of generic neo-hippy slacker. I’m very good at what I do and my enthusiasm and persona are a valuable asset to the company I work at. At the end of the day, my making it look so easy doesn’t negate the value of my productivity to the company’s bottom line.
I do feel sentiment for the “helicopter parenting” trend; while I’ve never had my mom try and call my job about some work-related issue, she has suggested doing so on one occasion. I told her to back off and let me take care of my own business. As far as this phenomenon is concerned on the larger scale, I have seen two kinds of responses to such overzealous parenting amongst my fellow Millenials; some demand that their parents let them be independent and self-responsible, and some allow their parents to interfere as much as they want as to avoid confrontation and decision-making on their own parts. I suspect that the latter crowd falls much closer to this report’s unfocused generalizations than the former.
Perhaps some of the older crowd should unwind a bit, realign with their priorities and ask why it is they work, play, and live in the first place. I’m not suggesting they go check out a book on Zen Buddhism or start a yoga class, but I’m not recommending against it, either.
But, for the record, I do feel lucky to report that the older crowd at my job doesn’t seem to have this backwards view of the younger workers which the 60 Minutes report is trying to propagate. I feel my work is respected and I respect their contribution as well (although I do have something to say about the bureaucratic fuck-ups that have gone down in upper-management, such as switching everything [Apache, MySQL, Linux] from open source software to Microsoft bullshit, claiming we needed to use a platform that would be still be around for the long-term, but I digress). We can all learn from each other if we stop labeling, pointing fingers, and shifting blame.
On that note, I suggest we put the shoptalk on pause and enjoy Friday night.
C
on 17 Nov 07Like many others, I work at a top university, and I agree that the parents of most millenials are NOT calling to have instructors change grades or to complain about students not being allowed to drop a class.
But, the point is that this is a new phenomenon, something that has only started happening with any kind of regularity in the past 5 years or so. Certainly my parents would never have even thought to call my teachers.
Whether this is a problem with parents who are hovering or children who are helpless is a different issue, however. It seems to me that if parents are calling to complain about Junior’s annual evaluation or bad grades, it is because their children complained to them.
One thing that I have also noticed is that the current crop of students, despite being very tech savvy (perhaps “very tech savvy” really means “excessive consumer of material goods”?), seem surprisingly unable to find even the simplest information that is easily available on the internet. This is, to me, the most puzzling thing about many of these students.
A milenial
on 17 Nov 07This must be a joke on their part; anyone who believes all that has to live under a rock 50 miles away from civilization.
A mlillenials older brother
on 17 Nov 07Sooo much of this is true though….
both my younger siblings….are just like this….
their work ethic and mine are like night and day…the behavior too….and we where raised by the same parents….
must say something about the times!
Jesse Ventura (but not really)
on 17 Nov 07I ain’t got time to spell!
I’m sorry; it was too good to pass up.
nexusprime
on 17 Nov 07Yeah, I’m real lazy.
I started working straight out of school, and I’m busy putting myself through university while still holding down a demanding full time job.
I hold one of the three senior positions in our engineering team of twenty, and I’m the youngest in the team, at twenty-six.
But I’m a slacker, because I mostly wear jeans, and I typically roll into work at 10am (and leave at 7-9pm)? :)
Come on, be serious.
Anonymous Coward
on 17 Nov 07what’s 60 Minutes?
Russell
on 17 Nov 07I wrote a piece on generational intolerance a while back:
http://www.russellquinn.com/?p=28
Justin Bell
on 17 Nov 07I’m 26 and I can’t relate to pretty much any of these things that my friends and I are supposed to be. But then again, I’m from New Zealand, so perhaps this is just another case of America assuming it’s the entire world?
Brian
on 17 Nov 07What a tired old dog 60 Minutes has trotted out and tried to beat with what remains of a stick. I’m 39 and I remember almost all the same arguments (well, except for the parental involvement in careers, and replace “walkman” for “iPod” and “Doc Martens” for “Fliip Flops”.....) laid at the feet of my own generation, the supposed “X”. Heck, I’ve made a career goal of being able to stroll into work at noon, in my doc martens, although I have upgraded to an iPod, and showing my tattoos when apporpriate. Big deal. You show up, you do your work, you be smart about it. I’ve worked with these “millenials” and love their enthusiasm and profesionalism for the most part, although even I don’t get all the social connections through technology all the time, but funk it, my generation was “lost in Pac Man and Cheetos” apparently and I think we came out OK considering…
Seems like the only generation that cares about this tired schtick is the fading Boomers who would like to think they “changed everything” despite feeling insecure next to the accomplishments of their own parents generation. Now they’re trying to label these “millenials” with the same crap. I look at the political strruggles at large and it’s all Boomer issues and Boomer psycho-drama (Bush’s failures next to his Great Generation Dad; Clintons Hippies vs the Straights Gingrich/Rove/Cheney in the Conservatives). They’re a generation that has funked up more things, I personally can’t wait until they’re gone and all us younger generations can really get down to fixing the problems their one generational swarth of destruction laid across the landscape…
Tom G.
on 17 Nov 07The most interesting thing about this thread is the wide range of ages of the posters. I wouldn’t have expected a distribution from high school to, ahem, more sedentary folk…
As an aside, 60 Minutes uses controversy to increase its viewing audience. The more controversial the subject matter, the more the viewer should use caution in using its content. I do think that the reverse psychology at play here could do some good to spur productivity.
While prejudice and discrimination against a statistical group can sometimes be used to some advantage, it is a dangerous, shameful and especially blunt tool to use against an individual.
Travis Anderson
on 17 Nov 07I was born in 1980, and I have a few observations on the various points.
1. My wife just turned 30, and I’m wondering if it’s safe to leave her with our kids. I mean, man, she’s OLD, she has no idea how to relate to my generation, or that of our kids.
2. Going into my seventh year on the job, I’m still waiting on that big promotion. The other day my boss walked into my cube and I paused my iPod to hear what he had to say, but he started blabbing about some deliverables or whatever, so I just started that new Kanye West album I got off BitTorrent and got back to reading the SvN blog.
3. Let me tell you… I was riding the elevator yesterday and this stuffy old suit got in with me. The whole time he was sneaking peaks at my brand new, scabby pentagram tattoo that I got on my neck last week. He’s got some nerve. He probably eats his candy bars with a knife and fork.
4. But I DO live with my mom (my whole family does), and it is an economical and wise decision. I can’t afford to be living on my own with only 70k a year. This economy sucks!
5. I’m sure my mom would email my boss in a second and tell him to give me a raise, if she knew how to use a computer (the old fart).
6. Don’t these managers know how to have fun? I mean, why get on my case when I come in a little late. I was living my life, man, I’ve got to live it up. I’ve only got a few more years to go.
7. Every day my mom asks me “how was work today?” It would be one hell of a lot easier if my boss would just give her a call and tell her for me.
All sarcasm aside—my wife, two kids, and myself /are/ currently living with my mother. However, that’s only because we’re fixing up our own house in order to sell it.
I do have visible tattoos (my kids’ names on my forearms), but I know when it’s appropriate to wear long sleeves, and when it doesn’t matter.
The commenters so far have made excellent points, not withstanding the original posters own points. The workplace is changing, and it is related to the changing attitudes of the people who work. That’s not just the “millennials.” In fact, it has little to do with us. These changes have been ongoing for several decades, each generation have been putting their two cents in hoping to improve overall worker health and productivity.
Some people take it too far, but that is not a generational issue. “Taking it too far” has been a function of the human condition for ages.
A. Mingoia
on 17 Nov 07This is what you get when you watch network TV.
Did someone say, DUH?
Shawn Oster
on 17 Nov 07Whew, for awhile there I was worried this generation might miss out on one of the great benefits of age, the clash between generations, with the youth telling the old-codgers to relax and the older generation bemoaning the lack of work ethic in “kids today”.
I suppose if horrible fashions like flipped-up colors on polo shirts are going to come back the “generation gap” might as well too.
devin holloway
on 17 Nov 0760 Minutes is just making itself obsolete with reports such as this.
The only reason they can get away with that crap is because we Millennials don’t watch TV as much, let alone programming directed at the diaper wearing population (and I’m not referring to toddlers…).
Total waste of my time…
Geoff
on 17 Nov 071) Generational differences absolutely exist. Any salesperson, marketer, or leader who works with people of all ages would be foolish to pretend those differences aren’t there.
2) One point where 60 Minutes is absolutely dead on: manners. Forgive the generalization, but the parents of Gen Y (and probably Gen X as well) didn’t teach their kids the basics, and these kids, for the most part, have not sought to educate themselves. I am not talking about “chew with your mouth closed” (and 60 Mins probably wasn’t either). I am talking about standing when a lady returns to the table, excusing yourself appropriately, placing your knife and fork to signal to the waitstaff when you’re finished, etc, etc.
3) There was a post here some time ago about the absurdity of wearing a suit to work, and the comments (both in support and in opposition to suits in the workplace) painted a pretty clear picture of youth’s perspective on appearance in the workplace: “It is all about me.” At work, younger people try to express themselves through their appearance. Older people intend for their appearance to be a display of respect for the people with whom they work. Younger people, therefore, find it absurd that older people would object to the tattoos on display. Older people find it absurd that younger people would be so “disrespectful.”
4) Our elders (I’m 34) have plenty of faults of their own. Their generation’s generous devotion to authority figures is one of them. But we’ve got our own problems. Rather than spit back at folks when they’re cited, I think we need to look harder and see if there’s anything to learn from what we’re hearing.
Udi
on 17 Nov 07They forgot one thing.
“Millenials” don’t think of 60 minutes as a respectable news show. They know better.
uh
on 18 Nov 07we’re not actually debating about 60 minutes are we?
Shanti Braford
on 18 Nov 07I saw the piece too; was mildly amused by how over the top it was. It really must have struck a nerve though to elicit this kind of response. I’m 27 so I would be on the border of being a millenial (what a shitty name for a generation, btw).
Like commenters have said, generalizations suck. But if they hadn’t generalized, what would their story be? “Our reporters her eat 60 minutes have had reports of at least one parent phoning in to have her student’s grade changed, and another one calling an HR department at a company.” Basically a non-story… but AHHH, if it’s a sweeping generalization about an entire group of people, that’s something we can pawn off as “the truth”!
Can you imagine them doing a similar story on black people? “They seem to have a propensity for watermelon and fried chicken…” Freaking racist; but you just have to roll your eyes at 60 Minutes is all…
sensei
on 18 Nov 07The trouble with the young is they have no history to learn from, and they spend all their energy unwisely. The good thing about youth is that it has a lot of energy.
The trouble with the elderly is that they find it hard to be “in the moment” because they didn’t take note of how to do that when they were young, and it just got harder and harder as time went on. The good thing about the elderly is they have a lot of experience.
Neither of these perspectives are “true”, or “right” ways of doing things. They’re both transitory states. A transcendant perspective is that unfortunately life always changes. For the most part, the difference between the young and the old is that the old have history, and cling to it. The young don’t have history, and so don’t cling to it. Really, they both have a lot to learn off each other. The young AND the old need to listen to EVERYTHING. When one ends up in a “flow moment”, then there’s no such thing as bad or good – everything “just is”.
Justin Bell
on 18 Nov 07Geoff: My parents taught me how to put my knife and fork when finish, and I always do, but standing up when a lady returns to the table? Surely you must be joking? And what exactly is the “proper” way to be excused from a table?
Sounds just like some old-fashion traditions with no real reason. Letting people know when you’re done eating is courteous and practical. Standing up when a female comes back to the table is just chauvinistic, IMHO.
Jeremy James
on 18 Nov 07Hi, another ‘milennial’ here. If I had the option of living with my parents over here in London, I genuinely would. Rent and bills cost me two-thirds of my take-home salary (despite my insistence to my housemate that we only really need electricity and an internet connection). I would then have money to save towards buying my own place, and be able to pay off my student loan in a reasonable length of time.
Why does rent cost so much? Point #1 dictates I should blame the 40-something buy-to-let landlords wanting to get as much cash out of us “slackers” as they can, pushing house prices to four times what they were ten years ago.
Chris Peters
on 18 Nov 07Being a Millennial myself, I can’t disagree with what 60 Minutes said entirely. We’ve become the generation of entitlement and no accountability.
Is it fair to everyone born in or after ‘80? Of course not! But I see it as a problem that employers need to be aware of. Kudos to 60 Minutes for creating a piece worth talking about, whether you agree with them or not.
Mike M.
on 18 Nov 07Just stop buying into this garbage… there are lazy people in every generation. Every single generation has been told they were lazy since the beginning of time. The very people who produced that story were at one point told they would amount to nothing and were a lazy bunch of idiots… just ignore and move on.
Chris
on 18 Nov 07The truth hurts. I work at a major university and this is true much more often than not. The kids who are willing to accept the shit jobs we all had to endure, eat mac and cheese in a crappy apartment and suck up to their elders are few and far between. Instead you basically get assholes who expect their dream job now and everything handed to them. I enjoy giving them reality checks at every opportunity.
Mike
on 18 Nov 07Milennials think living with your parents while in your mid 20s is “a very smart, wise, economic decision.”
Wait, it’s not a very smart, wise, economic decision?
Erik
on 19 Nov 07I wonder if it’s actually fair to pick on “millennials” for their parents’ overactive participation in their careers. Could it be that the parents are operating not at their children’s requests—but so desparately want them to succeed that they interfere by calling HR, attempting to show up for performance reviews, etc.?
But if the parents are the ones behaving badly, that could tarnish late ‘boomers. 60 Minutes would get hell if they went after ‘boomers who are shitty parents. (Note the lack of comma before “who”: I’m not generalizing, unlike what 60 Minutes was doing in the report.)
Zubair Hamed
on 19 Nov 07Well, the whole thing definitely is overgeneralizing but sad as it may sound, there is a bit of truth here and there..
Sure the bit bout forks and knives is a bit overmuch but stuff like the tatoos, parents calling HR etc has happened bit more than I would like…then again maybe its the parents’ fault for being overprotective? :D
Michael Hugos
on 19 Nov 07Inter-generational dissing is even more fun than booing the other team when their players run out onto the field. I’ve said a lot of unkind things about generations in front of me and behind me (and I reserve the right to continue this smug and self-indulgent behavior).
And I’m still totally committed to the idea that long hair and bell bottoms are much cooler than flip-flops and tattoos. But as I read this post and some of these comments I’m finding unexpected gems of wisdom. There is nothing like a new pair of eyes to see things that older (and wiser?) eyes might have missed.
I write a blog for an IT industry magazine and this post and these comments inspired my latest post… something is happening here – http://advice.cio.com/michael_hugos/something_is_happening_here
Tom G.
on 19 Nov 07Wow, has this topic generated a lot of interest…
Somebody at 60 Minutes is getting a big raise. I bet a substantial number of readers here who never would have watched 60 Minutes will now tune in even if only for one or two of the 60 Minutes.
Dan
on 19 Nov 0760 minutes is correct, Matt. In general, they are correct.
Ken
on 19 Nov 07http://nymag.com/news/features/16529/
What do people think about this story…
It basically says everything about the recent generation of 30 year olds…
This has far more truth in it about that gen…
John
on 19 Nov 07To use the words of the original post, I think it’s fair to say that a generalization of any generation is a “crock of shit.” However, if you took it as a controversial, albeit overzealous stab at young people in general…”millenials” or not, I think stories like this generally have some teeth.
I’m a Generation Xer…and as I’m sure most millenials take stories like this personally, so did I. I did not consider myself a slacker going nowhere fast. And since then I feel I’ve proved myself correct. But looking back at many of my GenX counterparts, 15 years later, well…
Point is…every new working generation gets labeled in some way. I think the central message to the Millennials is that they expect everything before they’ve earned anything. And in my experience, that is DEAD ON.
anonymous
on 19 Nov 0760 minutes is spot on, for the most part. Not everyone millenial is like that but looking at three of the last four interns we’ve had they were exactly as described above, huge sense of entitlement, expected to be rewarded before proving themselves, lazy and sloppy in their work. The one who worked his ass off, proved himself and paid his dues is now a full time employee. The others we could not wait to get rid of. Give me an older employee any day of the week, they understand what it means to work.
Skyler
on 19 Nov 07Being a “millenial,” I would agree that most people in my age group do have a pretty big sense of entitlement. At the same time, this doesn’t mean we’re all lazy and don’t want to work for what we may sometimes feel “entitled” to.
I think for most of us, we were told if we go to college and get a degree and work hard, we’ll be rewarded with a good job with decent pay and benefits. Before even graduating, however, most of us find out that’s not the case.
Even though there are some of my peers who fit 60 minute’s description, it definitely doesn’t describe all or even most of us. I, for one, worked hard to get where I am and I know I’m not the only one.
I moved out when I was 19 and decided I was going to do something with myself. I moved to Tallahassee and began school at FSU paying my own way and maintaining a 40hr/week web design job while taking 12-15 credit hours consistently every semester (including summer).
Since moving out I’ve been completely independent (financially or otherwise) and have managed to make $40K/yr on my own before even graduating between my full-time job and freelance work on the side. I’m now 21 and will be graduating this spring with my Bachelor’s.
So don’t tell me all “millenials” are lazy… we work hard to get where we are.
Chris
on 20 Nov 07This is so stupid. There are good for nothing assholes in every generation. Every generation feels disenfranchised and faced with an uphill battle. Every generation has to deal with war, poverty, and social oppression. Every generation gets old and forgets that they once went through the same things that plague the current youth.
The entire argument is completely subjective. I’m a Gen Xer and have seen both sides pf the story at work. Both extremes are equally worthless. Fortunately, this is not the majority of society.
On the subject of tattoos and subversive style, do you really expect not to be judged or noticed? Isn’t that the point of doing such things? To be subversive and individualistic? I love things that are outside of the mainstream but I also don’t expect to not be judged for my tastes.
That leads me to my final thought; just work hard at what you love and be yourself. You’ll be surprised how quickly people overlook the superficialities when they see your talent.
cecil
on 20 Nov 07Hi Millenials,
I would strongly recommend you guys to check out the “Generation Me” book by PHD Jean Twenge.
Sure the list above is a bit of a mockery, but there are some elements that really are specific to this generation.
datalus
on 20 Nov 07This is why I make beats. . .
Office jobs suck. Getting paid to make beats is better :)
John
on 20 Nov 07“siftee 19 Nov 07 well john, u really are a cock”
LOL…great input. Very intelligent.
Josh Walsh
on 21 Nov 07I know many people older than these millennials who fit this profile. Age does not correlate to laziness.
Zupp
on 21 Nov 07I agree with siftee.
ChrisHP
on 21 Nov 07I love any excuse to whip out these quotes:
“The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress.”
Peter the Hermit, 1272 AD
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates, 270 BC.John A Davis
on 21 Nov 07Thats my daughter. She is 25 and has burned the bridge on a ton of good jobs. Walked out on 2 jobs because they wouldn’t give her a day off when she wanted it.
Of course, what the big bruhaha is about is the Enterprise is trying to figure out how to exploit these young people that will work for peanuts. It’s not about anything else. Old people won’t work for so little.
T
on 22 Nov 07One point missing from these otherwise very interesting comments:
Where is the journalistic integrity? Don’t media ethics dictate that both sides of a story must be presented in (the now misused phrase) a fair and balanced way? If you are going to present a panel of experts stating that millenials are lazy, worthless, etc., you must include some material offering an alternate perspective—that is, unless this was an editorial.
Was this an editorial?
AllieBeatty
on 22 Nov 07The story, as reported by 60 Minutes, is the proof in the pudding. The Millenium generation has found a way to be productive under the demands of today’s business. They’ve found a way to make it happen without cracking under pressure – which is something previous generations could not do as well. Kudos to the Milleniums for figuring it out long before they are in need of the 60 Minute commercials – telling them how to spend their next nonexistent Social Security check. Isn’t that really what 60 Minutes is attacking? The fact that these kids have it figured out already? When the end of the day comes and there is work to be done – look around. It’s usually the flip-flop wearing iPod synching, homegrown Millenium who is there – to get the job done! How about showing a little appreciation for their devotion rather than cutting them down for not being just like you?
John
on 23 Nov 07i think everyone here is intelligent enough to know that this does not and cannot apply to all “millennials.”
the stereotype of my generation is that we’re either pot-smoking hippies or zoned out on sega (or both). we care about nothing…won’t ever take the time to study, find a good job, etc..
most gen xers grew up, some did not. but the point is that the stereotype itself did a pretty good job of describing kids and teens at the time.
the millennials stereotype seems to center around their sense of entitlement. the argument of whether or not it’s true has no bearing…it’s a stereotype…
stereotypes are born from a general perception of something. and to some degree, based on our own personal experiences, the stereotype holds a certain level of truth for each of us. we’re all individuals here…so speaking on behalf of a generation as if they were a coherent group is bogus.
the story for me has very little to do with age per se. it has nothing to do with a lack of respect or education. it has to do with the difference between education and experience, and the apparent ignorance of the difference between the two. so for those who do, in fact, fall into this category, it’s not a question of when you trade the bong for the book…it’s a question of when your experience and knowledge catches up to all your bullshit.
This discussion is closed.